U2 Will Sing "Sunday Bloody Sunday" For How Long?: Repost
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I thought this was worth reposting since it was not coming up in the search tab:
U2 will be performing at The Rose Bowl in southern California this weekend and it will be broadcast on youtube. Bono has been been getting some attention lately as many Evangelical youth are looking up to him because of his concern for the poor.
“Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forrest, Calif., is known for mobilizing evangelical churches in the battle against HIV/AID in Africa, while U2 frontman Bono is one of the world’s leading anti-poverty activists.
“We are seeing a head-snapping generational change,” contends Gerson, who was a top aide and former speech writer to President George W. Bush. “The model of social engagement of the religious right is increasingly exhausted.”
At the recent biennial Evangelical Leaders Forum, Gerson offered three reasons for the change: a recovery of scriptural emphasis, a revolt against the tone and style of the Religious Right, and the effects of short-term mission trips on young Christians.
According to Gerson, young Americans return from short-term mission trips with a changed worldview. Their exposure to poverty, HIV/AIDS, and economic injustice make them concerned about these issues and want to improve the problems.
But Gerson quickly clarified that the movement to care about a broader set of issues, beyond abortion and family, is not an innovation but an evangelical tradition…”
I am not going to address the other issues in this article, I simply use the quote to show Bono’s influence among Christians. This brings me to the main point about U2′s song “Sunday Bloody Sunday” which is a great rock and roll song lamenting the existence of war. Having been a Liberal Dead Head I understand the power of music and the influence it can have over people’s thinking.
Below is a U2 performing “Sunday Bloody Sunday” a central lyric is “How long, how long must we sing this song”? Enjoy the song and think about that question.
The answer to this question is theological and I think rather simple for the Christian. War has been a part of mankind’s existence since sin entered the world and it will remain a part of our existence until sin is no longer able to influence our actions. This means that until Jesus Christ returns to judge the world, war will exist. So U2 are going to have to sing “Sunday Bloody Sunday” for a very long time.
Each of us will face judgment when we die, most likely before Jesus returns.
“Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.” Hebrews 9:27-28
And when Jesus appears the second time, He will do so as our Judge. Those who have repented of their sin will have their names written in the Book of Life.
“Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:11-15
Forgiveness of sin is only found in Jesus Christ who is the exclusive Savior of mankind.
“Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:15“Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going.”
Jesus the Way to the Father
Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:1-6
UPDATE:
I am adding a passage in response to a comment to this post because I think it is relevant. Jesus seems to make it clear that He knew there would not only be rumors of war, but war itself before His return. He could have taken the opportunity to condemn war but He did not, He actually says that the existence of war must be the case.“Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.” Matthew 24:3-8
Yes, war can create humanitarian disasters and we often only focus on the human side of it. I think taking into account that God is sovereign and omniscient, we ought to be a little cautious in asserting that God can bring about no good as a result of nation rising up against nation. Christians are still called to care for the child that has become an orphan as a result of war.
“Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and
widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.” James 1:27Related posts:
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13 Responses and Counting...
War creates the orphans and widows you loudly proclaim your concern for Todd.
If you accept it in a blase fashion because it's just the product of a sinful world, you should logically take the same regretful but fatalistic tone in discussing abortion.
Don't do it, Todd. For once, be truly pro life and be enraged that right now, children the age of yours and mine are being indiscriminately killed in wars across the globe. The rage of the question "How long will be to long?" shouldn't be met with a shrug and comment about what a catchy song it is.
If your righteous anger about abortion was real, alongside your postings on it you would be posting angry denunciations of war every day.
Dave,
I responded to your comment with an update at the bottom of the post.
Jesus doesn't need to condemn war here. He lists it amongst false Christs, famines and pestilence. He doesn't imply war is positive, Todd.
In any case, once again you're simply avoiding addressing my point. I wasn't talking about God's sovereignty but your integrity. Your heart wrenching pleas to save children from abortions are hollow if you don't decry the devastation war brings and always has.
You seem to be very casual about the massacres of the innocent that occur in war. It's OK because God is sovereign?
Using a religious book to justify the collateral damage to the innocent because the war may be "just" sounds familiar.
Tell me again how different your worldview is from the islamofacists? Your own postings are evidence otherwise. Enforcing an intolerant moral code AND accepting the deaths of thousands of innocents as being all part of God's will, all based on an ancient, bloodthirsty and self contradictory text just because you choose to put your blind faith in it?
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2009/12/biblical-pacifism-by-rick-frueh-blessed.html
I am wondering if we have been circling the problem of evil in all this? Maybe that is your main objection? In any case, I think this video of Voddie Bauchman addressing the problem of evil has implications about war as well.
No. Todd. No. It has nothing to do with the problem of evil (Unless you are addressing Rick. I can't speak for Rick).
The point is your inability at this stage to show any kind of consistency in your worldview. You worry about aborted babies in the US and the victims of Palestinian suicide bombers. All other massacres of the innocent you seem to be shrugging off with "Well, that's the way it is till Jesus comes back". Why not say the same about abortion?
Your tactic when confronted with this discrepancy is the same you always use. You change the subject. Problem of evil? Red herring.
Lets get back on topic Todd. Why is it wrong to abort an infant, but right to bomb a town knowing that infants will be killed?
I'm curious to know which of the major streams of thought Todd holds to regarding war. Is it the Just War Tradition or pacifism? Or is it something else?
It seems that from this post that for Todd, the horrors of war are to be shrugged off because Jesus said there would be wars.
Todd has also said that he "would give a wide path" to Israel who have deliberately used illegal phosphorus in their bombs, burning infants to death and killing civilians on a large scale.
"Give a wide path to" isn't an idiom I am familiar with. "Turn a blind eye to" would probably be more appropriate in any case.
Dave,
It seems that from this post that for Todd, the horrors of war are to be shrugged off because Jesus said there would be wars.
That's why I asked. There are some dangers with proof-texting and I think they are being highlighted here. The way Todd is using the Matthew 24 is missing eschatological point of the text.
The Just War tradition would not support the killing of innocents. In fact, one of the requirements of a "just war" is that care is given not to harm non-combatants.
Pacifism doesn't support any war.
Passive-ism on the other hand, "turns a blind eye to".
I'm not inclined to accuse Todd of passive-ism at this point, but there are some points that need clarification.
Craig
You make some interesting points. Unlike Todd, and perhaps yourself, I don't believe the Bible should be taken literally or even seriously. I use it from time to time to point out that Todd's view doesn't even follow any internal logic, let alone basic common sense.
Why do I bother? I came across Todd's blog by chance and its dishonesty, incoherence and ignorance need to be challenged.
Dave,
I do not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible in all cases. Genre and context play an important part in interpretation.
I'll respond to the latest comments in here a bit later when I have some time to write a detailed response.
Craig,
Yes some form of Just War theory seems right to me and more consistent with Scripture. Would pacifism stopped the Nazis? I do not see how. Not every war is just and any war must seek to minimize civilian casualties. See my comments in the Vietnam post for issues raised by Dave, since I think they would apply here as well.
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