Really? Like actually? You need to start moving left in your politics, it americans like you that make english women like me think that america is fully of right wing bigots. How do you even have the right to an opinion on this? How does Santorum for that matter? YOU ARE BOTH MEN and therefore do not have the right to decide what a woman does or does not do during pregnancy…her body her rights. Full stop.

Being a man has nothing to do with. That seems like a sexist argument for abortion. Should then slave owners have been told be non-slave owners what to do? I wouldn't ground the value of human life in such relativistic terms. The child is also the father's, he has a role to play as well. He was there when the baby was created right? So a human being that has a heart beat has no rights in your eyes?

Not at all, a human being has rights. a functioning breathing out of the womb human being has rights. A collection of cells that couldn't viably survive in the atmosphere in which it required to live, i.e. a fetus/ foetus (depending on which country you live in depends on how its spelt) has no rights. I understand also that the father has rights, and has an (albeit short) role to play in conception and facilitation of pregnancy, and that men can be and often are excellent fathers. However, Pregnancy is something that is fundamentally female. The inability of men to carry a child within their person means that (in my opinion) their rights as a father begin at birth because before then any test or procedure carried out on the baby affects to woman physically. In the way a woman has the right to consent or not to sex, she has the right (until such time as a foetus is born) to give consent on any test applied to the babay within her body.

She makes a pretty good point. Plus, this is how someone who truly understands women's rights argues.

President Obama's policy does NOT require ANYONE to have an amniocentesis. It only requires that the insurance companies must include this in their prenatal care insurance (for women only of course- since men do not need prenatal care). Whether or not a woman has an amniocentesis is a done when recommended by the physician and agreed to by the patient (again a woman who may or may not consult with her husband/boyfriend). The woman can always refuse. I suppose your wife is older than 35 because it is seldom recommended for pregnant women younger than 35. But realize that President Obama is not suggesting that anyone have an amniocentesis; he is only requiring that insurance companies include this in prenatal care if recommended by a physician- and agreed to by the patient (woman.

Like the Virginia ultrasound bill does not require the state to "rape" a woman with a probe.

When is an abortion murder? When the baby is 80 percent born with only the head still inside it's mother? If you are concerned about viability, that is possible somewhere around 26 weeks. So we could then outlaw abortion after viability.

I just don't believe that the government should be able to control what a person does with their body. While a mother is pregnant she governs that body until the birth of the child and medical ethics would state that she has full decision making authority until the child is born (as long as she is of sound mind of course). I understand that the line is blurry and maybe it always will be. My question is where do we draw the line between religious morality and what will ultimately benefit society as a whole? After all one is objective, one is subjective and they are often in conflict.

Which is EXACTLY how its done in the UK. Its actually 24 weeks here. Listen, I'm not saying that Abortion is right, I am saying that until such time as the medical profession deems it right, in such that a fetus could not survive outside of the womb, abortion isn't murder. if you look at my earlier post no where did i mention that a baby has to be carried to term. I said it has to viably be able to survive in the within the atmosphere which it is required to do so.

This is how someone who truly understands women's rights argues? I wouldn't go that far. Some men have been liberated from their responsibilities and don't have to worry about paying child support or garnished wages and it's not them who have to have a medical/surgical procedure done to keep their lives from being ruined. I would say the answer is education. If women have adequate access to education and other forms of birth control, abortions can become obsolete.

what are the innocent child's rights when they are still in the womb…?

do they not have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..?

don't give me the mass of cells the left always replies with. ….By week 6 your baby's heart is prominent and beating. The next step is the development of your baby's owns unique blood vessels, and a blood supply that is completely separate to yours….
http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/weekly-guide-to-p…

typically women don't know they are pregnant until they are at least 4 weeks pregnant…

Abortion is murder plain and simple, you can try to justify it all you want, but deep down in your heart you know the truth…

Listen to Me, O islands, And pay attention, you peoples from afar. The LORD called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me. (Isaiah 49:1)

And now says the LORD, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, in order that Israel might be gathered to Him (For I am honored in the sight of the LORD, And My God is My strength), (Isaiah 49:5)

Yet Thou art He who didst bring me forth from the womb; Thou didst make me trust when upon my mother's breasts. Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb. (Psalm 22:9-10)

Abortion is wrong, therefore, because it is a failure to love, appreciate, and care for a human baby. It is also wrong because it constitutes the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. When people defend abortion, their arguments should always be evaluated in light of the fact that the unborn baby is a human being, a separate individual from its mother. Therefore, deliberately killing it would be just as wrong as killing any other innocent human being. What should a woman do if she has aborted a baby and now realizes she did wrong? She does not need to spend the rest of her life with the burden of unforgiven guilt. The Bible says abortion is wrong, but it also offers a source of true forgiveness through the blood of Jesus Christ. God will forgive if we will come to Him according to His conditions. Read and obey these passages: Rom. 1:16; 6:3,4; 10:9,10; Mark 16:16; Acts 17:30; 2:38; 22:16.
http://www.bible.ca/s-Abortion.htm

Oh goodness. I'm very pro-life, and I'm also a Christian, but even I hate it when people pull out scriptures to justify their argument.
No matter what your views may be theologically, many people will not agree with a scripture based argument. Not everyone has the same faith as you. So by whipping out your Bible to prove your point, you've just lost the argument. What if they belong to a religion that supports abortion? You're at a stalemate.
It's great that your argument is backed by your faith. But you can't only have that as a way to support it.

The problem with Santorum's statements is that he implies that most amniocentesis results come back showing Downs Syndrome. Actually, amniocentesis provides a result of "no problems at all" 97% of the time. Only 3% of the time do results show anything negative, and that 3% must be split between Downs Syndrome and a long list of other conditions or diseases.

Spina bifida, for example. Or Rh blood incompatibility. Or infection. These are all more common than Downs Syndrome, and all can be treated in utero or immediately once the baby is born. Without the diagnosis that amniocentesis provides, these conditions would be missed or not treated in time, and result in death of the baby. Not just sickness – death.

There are other conditions diagnosed via amniocentesis, including genetic conditions, that aren't treatable, but many people DO go on to carry their baby to term and have no intention of aborting. I was one of those cases. We were concerned that our son would have a specific genetic disorder that would mean he would be severely handicapped and mentally retarded, and he would only live a few years, if that. We had no interest in abortion but we needed to know if this was his condition because a natural birth could kill us both. Getting a correct diagnosis meant we could plan for the safest birth and begin preparing ourselves for an entirely different life. We were fortunate that our test came back showing no signs of the genetic disorder, and we now have an extremely bright and healthy 10 year old. The test allowed us to have peace of mind and helped us pinpoint the health issues our son DOES have, so that immediately after birth he could be tested and treated properly.

Amniocentesis is VITAL to the health of many women and babies and it is 100% untrue that more often than not, amnios result in abortion. It is reckless of Santorum to use this as a political tool. Please dig deeper into the statements your favored politicians are stating as fact. People's lives are in their hands if they are seeking to save lives, they should be more careful.

Also, you may want to ask yourself how far down this road you want to go. Sonograms also provide devastating diagnoses – should they not be covered because their results sometimes lead to abortion? What about blood tests? These also can give a mother a terrible diagnosis and some choose to abort. No more insurance coverage for blood testing in pregnancy?

If you want to decrease abortions, find out why those who receive certain diagnoses abort. Find out if they would keep the child but don't have the financial means to do so. Fight THAT fight. Don't go after a test that saves MANY more lives than it ends.

And don't believe everything a politician says.

Well Burll, she is a woman. And I wouldn't dispute women's rights with someone who actually experiences the discrimination that comes with the identity. I feel like she does a pretty good job at making her point. I agree with your point of education to some extent. I disagree with the thought that abortions would become obsolete. With education people would just become more cognizant about when abortion may or may not be appropriate. It also would stop being seen as an easy out by irresponsible people and seen as a mature and well informed decision by those who know what is right for them in their personal lives.

Thank you for your comment Elizabeth. No one is trying to make you love abortion @Restore2012. You have every right in the world to disagree with it. What you don't have the right to do is control the decisions someone else makes for their own personal reasons. If a woman we don't know get's an abortion, it's none of our business. We have no context for her reason to do so and we don't have a right to that information either.

See, and now I can say I think that by being against abortion I feel I'm standing up for a person's life, rather then controlling a woman. After all, the woman is in discomfort for 9 months, but that person never even gets a chance.
I think it's unfair to take away someone's life because of 9 months of discomfort that, when thought about in the big picture, is hardly any time at all.
But I can still say all that without any scripture backup.

Christians need to be able to defend their views from the Bible since that is where our beliefs come from. This blog is as much for Christians as it is aimed at confronted those who are not. Scripture can be backed up by philosophy, which is particularly helpful in the debate about abortion and understanding what personhood actually is. But it all starts with the Bible, with Jesus.

Alright, so if I wasn't a Christan, but a different religion altogether, you would accept quotes from my holy book as valid arguments then, right?

When women find out that they have a baby with down syndrome, around 80-90% abort.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thinplaces/2011/06/9…

I didn't argue that point, and it's a very sad reality. However – of the thousands of amnio tests given each year, only 3% come back with abnormal results. Only *some* of the 3% are Downs Syndrome cases.

So if there are 100 amnio tests, only 3 come back saying something is wrong. Statistically, only 1 of those cases is Downs Syndrome, tand yes, that baby does likely get aborted. The other 2 cases where something is wrong might be spina bifida – treatable if caught in time, death to the baby if not caught. Or they might be untreatable, and the parents don't abort.

Santorum is making it look as though the only amnio results anyone has are Downs Syndrome so surely the test isn't a good idea because we're seeing that that diagnosis ends in abortion. The reality is that less than 1% of all amnio tests result in a Downs Syndrome diagnosis. The test saves more lives than it leads to abortion.

and that's completely irrelevant for cases like Rh negative disease. please stop having strong opinions about things you don't understand.

Thank you so very much for this post. Amnio is so often CRITICAL to the health of the baby – and more often saves the baby's health and life than results in abortion. It is beyond me why Santorum thinks he's an OB doctor to the nation, he does not have the proper knowledge to be saying these things – I sincerely hope that he talks to some doctors and realizes that what he said is actually anti-life rather than pro-life. In Rh blood incompatibility, diagnosed by amnio and much more common than Downs, babies will literally die without the expensive test (and followup prenatal treatment) if its not covered by health insurance! And that is something where people don't abort, because when treated (after amnio confirms problem) babies are completely fine.

except, I have heard way to many cases in which doctors recommend abortion because they don't think the child will live, and the child does live…. why do we get to choose weather or not our child lives or not? how is that NOT murder? We have a child now with a neuro muscular disorder and we ADORE her. Had we done pre natal testing, I am certain a doctor wold have recommended aborting the baby (the life expectancy is only 0-2 years, she is now almost 4 and doing great!) I am so sick of people not willing to take responsibility for their actions! and i am so tired of people trying to "justify" their actions by referring to their unborn child as a fetus, or an "it"….